Dr. Tim Seastedt

Institute of Arctic and Alpine Research

1460 60th Street

Campus Box 450

Boulder, CO 80309-0450

 

October 7 1998

 

Dear Dr. Seastedt,

 

I am returning two copies of the revised manuscript "Accumulation and depletion of base cations in forest floors in the Northeastern US" (MS 98-259).  I have explained my responses to each of the reviewer's comments below.  I agree that the reviews were very useful, and I have added their names to the Acknowledgements.

 

Reviewer #1, Art Johnson

 

1.  The reviewer was troubled by the lack of repeatability in the Mg measurements.  We have since reanalyzed the 1970 samples, with much better agreement in Mg concentrations.  This comparison is now reported in the methods: the figure is no longer important.

 

2.  We have calculated the amount of change that would be necessary to detect a significant difference between sampling dates for each of the studies (added to each of the Results).  I consider to be the most important improvement made to the paper in revision.  Yes, this rate is an order of magnitude smaller than streamwater export, so we were not looking for an impossible rate of change.

 

3.  Yes, the acid-extractable Ca we report is nearly equivalent to exchangeable Ca.  The point is important because non-exchangeable Ca could be assumed to be less readily leached.  The comparison is now included in the methods section.

 

4.  Johnson's student Andersen found Ca loss mainly in forest floors with >25 cmol Ca/g soil.  I would cite his study if our results supported it, but they don't.

 

Comments on the ms.

p. 2  "Forest floors could both accumulate base cations and be a source."  True.  Changed to read "net source."

 

p 3.  "How does atmospheric dep compare with biomass increment in such stands?"  He is correct, regrowth could be supported by atmospheric dep rather than soil sources.  I removed the sentence "This regrowth implies that Ca is being obtained from soil stores."

 

p 5. l 16.  "Original" for "earlier."  Good.

 

p 8.  There was a typo in the K value, which has been fixed.

 

p 8.  I added a reference to Table 2, which identifies the significance of changes.

 

p 11.  "The W-5 whole-tree harvest did not show Ca loss in years 3 or 8."  We added discussion of the W-5 results to the discussion.

 

p 12.  "or due to sampling in a different place."  I'm not sure what the reviewer meant to suggest.  Variation in the calculated cation contents of the samples can be explained by variation in the measured variables.  The correlation of changes in cation content with changes in cation concentration tells us nothing about how comparable the sample sites were. 

 

p 14. l 3.  "How about the age of the forest when cut?"  There are many other sources of variation between stands.  I changed the sentence to read "other sources of variation" instead of "spatial variation."

 

p 14 l 22 "anomolously" low has been changed to "especially " low.

 

p 14. l 24.  "These are comparisons over 6-12 years.  Given the variability in space, differences are nearly certain to represent sampling error."  I meant these comparisons to illustrate the danger in comparing only two points in time: sampling error is interpreted as change.  The preceeding sentence offers an explanation in terms of sampling error (soil moisture affects the deliniation of horizons).

 

p 15.  "This cation capital was not lost from the soil--it was captured in mineral horizons."  I think he refers to the change in forest floor pools at HBEF W-5.  This paragraph concerns the timing of nutrient changes in the forest floor, and doesn't address the fate of the nutrients lost.  Rapid losses of nutrients in streamwater are cited to support the short time frame of some processes contributing to nutrient loss.  No change.

 

Reviewer #2, Kate Lajtha

 

1.  We replaced the sentence in the abstract that suggested that our focus on the forest floor was motivated primarily by its ease of measurement.  Cation declines have been reported in other studies of the forest floor, and the forest floor is important to nutrient cycling.  The introduction covers all these motivations.

 

2.  The reviewer pointed out that our alternative hypotheses are not mutually exclusive.  A third is that mineralizing slash could increase Ca in young stands.  I changed the language in this paragraph.

 

3.   I didn't mean to imply that any change in ecosystem stores would be reflected in the forest floor.  I meant that contents, not concentration, are appropriate to assessing changes in storage. I removed "in the ecosystem" from this sentence, which should leave the meaning more clear.

 

4.   With the reanalysis of samples from 1982 this pattern has changed.  The paragraph has been removed.

 

5.   Yes, forest floor organic matter content might change over succession.  But the organic matter fraction is constrained by the definition of the forest floor.  The discussion of differences in organic matter fraction in different collections has been moved to the discussion.  The definition of the forest floor and its relation to organic matter fraction is now in the methods.

 

6.   Unfourtunately, we do not have sufficient information on stand age in this study to determine whether the aggrading forest floors are in young stands.

 

7.    The reviewer was not suprised that we found increased organic matter  in the forest floor of young stands.  She has not been taught the dogma in northern hardwoods that the forest floor should decline to 50% of its mass in the first 20 years after clearcutting.  This expectation is important to refute and is the subject of another paper, currently in preparation, focusing on the pattern of organic matter change in the chronosequence.

 

The figure suggested by the reviewer is one we have used in other presentations.  We do not use it here for two reasons.  The main reason is that that there is a lot of variation between stands that is unrelated to their age, so they do not track along a neat line like the one she drew.  The other reason is that the information in such a graph is completely redundant with Table 2: anybody who wants to see it can construct such a graph.

 

The final suggestion is that the emphasis on the acid rain question be redirected to the simpler question of changes in forest floor cations over time.  We believe that there is currently widespread interest in the question of cation depletion by acid rain, and other studies have reported cation losses from the forest floor and interpreted them as due to acid rain.  Preliminary results of our own study have been cited as evidence of cation depletion by acid rain.

 

In addition to the changes requested by the reviewers, we added the 1997 results to the long-term record from Hubbard Brook, and we revised those from 1982, which had a problem with sample analysis (all the samples were reanalyzed).  Finally, we are reporting values for the 1970 Hubbard Brook samples that are consistent with the published study, rather than reporting our reanalysis of the stored samples.  None of these revisions has changed the interpretation of the results.

 

Thank you for a most constructive review process.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

Ruth Yanai

 

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